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	<title>Comments on: Lee Sustar on the Current State of US Labor</title>
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	<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/12/21/lee-sustar-on-the-current-state-of-us-labor/</link>
	<description>I&#039;m a force by myself but we&#039;re a movement when we&#039;re together</description>
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		<title>By: Mamos</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/12/21/lee-sustar-on-the-current-state-of-us-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-522</link>
		<dc:creator>Mamos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=1085#comment-522</guid>
		<description>Brittancus, is that racist rant something you wrote directly in response to Krisna&#039;s post or did you just recycle it from some listserv you are on and repost it here?   

In any case, the arguments you&#039;re making are unfortunately all too prevalent and need to be debunked.  I&#039;ll get that process started and maybe others can contribute:

1)  You say &quot;the net cost of post-1969 immigrants at $61 billion in 2000 alone&quot; even after the taxes immigrants pay is subtracted.  What about all the wealth that immigrant workers produce for the corporations and the taxes that these corporations then pay to the government?   This far outweighs any amount of money that the government spends on social services to (barely) reproduce these workers&#039; labor power (for example, training their kids to work for low wages to make their rich bosses even richer).  

2)  Are undocumented workers really sucking up government spending on welfare and other social services?  Many undocumented folks are afraid to access these services out of fear they will be deported.  Many have to pull their kids of out of school to work to support the family because their wages are so low and they have no job security.  

3) If anything, it seems like the US government and elites are taking a lot from undocumented workers and giving very little back.  This is something they would like to do to non-immigrant workers as well, but the fact that they want to do that to you too is NOT the fault of immigrant workers and until you unite with immigrant workers to fight it you are going to get screwed. 

For example, is installing E-verify in US workplaces really going to bring jobs to jobless Americans? Unemployment is not rising because of immigration.  It is rising because the rich elites are refusing to invest in productive industries because they can&#039;t get enough quick profits out of them, so they&#039;re investing in finance and other forms of speculation instead.  THAT is what got us into this mess. 

   The best answer I&#039;ve seen to this problem so far was actually thought up by immigrant workers - the folks at Republic Windows and Doors who refused to be unemployed and who occupied their factory when the company tried to shut it down claiming bankruptcy.  They then went and protested at Bank of America which was refusing to grant the company loans to stay open even though they had just received part of the bailout money from taxpayers which was supposed to be used for exactly this purpose.   

IMMIGRANT workers did that, setting a precedent for all workers, including non-immigrant workers.... if we learn form their example, EVERYONE will benefit...... except of course the wealthy corporate elites who are trying to screw us all over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brittancus, is that racist rant something you wrote directly in response to Krisna&#8217;s post or did you just recycle it from some listserv you are on and repost it here?   </p>
<p>In any case, the arguments you&#8217;re making are unfortunately all too prevalent and need to be debunked.  I&#8217;ll get that process started and maybe others can contribute:</p>
<p>1)  You say &#8220;the net cost of post-1969 immigrants at $61 billion in 2000 alone&#8221; even after the taxes immigrants pay is subtracted.  What about all the wealth that immigrant workers produce for the corporations and the taxes that these corporations then pay to the government?   This far outweighs any amount of money that the government spends on social services to (barely) reproduce these workers&#8217; labor power (for example, training their kids to work for low wages to make their rich bosses even richer).  </p>
<p>2)  Are undocumented workers really sucking up government spending on welfare and other social services?  Many undocumented folks are afraid to access these services out of fear they will be deported.  Many have to pull their kids of out of school to work to support the family because their wages are so low and they have no job security.  </p>
<p>3) If anything, it seems like the US government and elites are taking a lot from undocumented workers and giving very little back.  This is something they would like to do to non-immigrant workers as well, but the fact that they want to do that to you too is NOT the fault of immigrant workers and until you unite with immigrant workers to fight it you are going to get screwed. </p>
<p>For example, is installing E-verify in US workplaces really going to bring jobs to jobless Americans? Unemployment is not rising because of immigration.  It is rising because the rich elites are refusing to invest in productive industries because they can&#8217;t get enough quick profits out of them, so they&#8217;re investing in finance and other forms of speculation instead.  THAT is what got us into this mess. </p>
<p>   The best answer I&#8217;ve seen to this problem so far was actually thought up by immigrant workers &#8211; the folks at Republic Windows and Doors who refused to be unemployed and who occupied their factory when the company tried to shut it down claiming bankruptcy.  They then went and protested at Bank of America which was refusing to grant the company loans to stay open even though they had just received part of the bailout money from taxpayers which was supposed to be used for exactly this purpose.   </p>
<p>IMMIGRANT workers did that, setting a precedent for all workers, including non-immigrant workers&#8230;. if we learn form their example, EVERYONE will benefit&#8230;&#8230; except of course the wealthy corporate elites who are trying to screw us all over.</p>
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		<title>By: Brittancus</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/12/21/lee-sustar-on-the-current-state-of-us-labor/comment-page-1/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Brittancus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=1085#comment-507</guid>
		<description>Once Health care is reformed or not, President Obama and the Democratic leaders intend to force on us into another Amnesty, or what they like to call IMMIGRATION REFORM at the beginning of 2010. THAT WHAT THEY CALLED THE 1986 IMMIGRATION REFORM BILL (ICRA) THAT WAS NEVER ENFORCED.

The cost of immigration to our society is propagating through the years enormously The most recent estimate places the net cost of post-1969 immigrants at $61 billion in 2000 alone. That is $35 billion from legal immigrants and $26 billion from illegal immigrants) This is--AFTER--immigrants’ contribution in taxes has been subtracted. As outrageous as the cost are now to the unsuspecting taxpayers, the rising tide of immigration will lift it even higher in years to come.  Where now illegal immigrants poured into the country, faster than regular immigration numbers. In 2002, the annual net cost of immigration had risen to $66 billion, with no end in sight. A study from the National Bureau of Economic Research, based on the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation, analyzed the cost of immigrants based on their specific use of (means-tested) welfare entitlements (both direct and indirect), and revealed that the total immigrant receipt of benefits in 1996 came to $180 billion.That annual amount has to grown to out-of-control proportions, as the population of legal and illegal immigrants imported to one million new people a year. After these numbers were released, there seem to be an intentional reluctance to offer costs for both legal and illegal immigrant cost to the US taxpayer. Just last year the number of--LEGAL--immigrants ratcheted-up to 3.5 million. JOBLESS AMERICAN WORKERS NEED TO SPEAK OUT. WE NEED TO  INSTALL E-VERIFY IN EVERY COMPANY THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES. IT WILL GUARANTEE THE REMOVAL OF EVERY UNAUTHORIZED WORKER, ACCEPT A LIMITED NUMBER OF PERSONS USING FAMILY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS AND OTHER DOCUMENTATION. SOME WILL GET A POSITIVE VERIFICATION, BUT NEW UPGRADES AND INNOVATIONS TO THE SYSTEM, WILL CATCH ILLEGAL FOREIGN LABOR IN THE FUTURE.

Whereas the administration keeps imposing millions of poor, uneducated people into America, because of poor national enforcement of which the majority of foreign nationals become public charges.   Just before Obama signs new Immigration reform, taxpayers better realize that there are expectations from millions of more destitute people just waiting to slip across our undermanned borders and past airport control  If there was a time to call and harass your Senator or Representative at 202-224-3121, this really is the most urgent of times. Just your vote and voice can--HALT--this innocuous law becoming active. We cannot keep on accepting the world indigent, as it will lead to OVERPOPULATION as stated by the US Census Bureau.  Just read the demographics and expenditures that will tax you even more. No more lies and read the facts and inferior enforcement grading at NUMBERSUSA. Understand the undisclosed corruption in Washington and different states at JUDICIAL WATCH.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once Health care is reformed or not, President Obama and the Democratic leaders intend to force on us into another Amnesty, or what they like to call IMMIGRATION REFORM at the beginning of 2010. THAT WHAT THEY CALLED THE 1986 IMMIGRATION REFORM BILL (ICRA) THAT WAS NEVER ENFORCED.</p>
<p>The cost of immigration to our society is propagating through the years enormously The most recent estimate places the net cost of post-1969 immigrants at $61 billion in 2000 alone. That is $35 billion from legal immigrants and $26 billion from illegal immigrants) This is&#8211;AFTER&#8211;immigrants’ contribution in taxes has been subtracted. As outrageous as the cost are now to the unsuspecting taxpayers, the rising tide of immigration will lift it even higher in years to come.  Where now illegal immigrants poured into the country, faster than regular immigration numbers. In 2002, the annual net cost of immigration had risen to $66 billion, with no end in sight. A study from the National Bureau of Economic Research, based on the Census Bureau’s Survey of Income and Program Participation, analyzed the cost of immigrants based on their specific use of (means-tested) welfare entitlements (both direct and indirect), and revealed that the total immigrant receipt of benefits in 1996 came to $180 billion.That annual amount has to grown to out-of-control proportions, as the population of legal and illegal immigrants imported to one million new people a year. After these numbers were released, there seem to be an intentional reluctance to offer costs for both legal and illegal immigrant cost to the US taxpayer. Just last year the number of&#8211;LEGAL&#8211;immigrants ratcheted-up to 3.5 million. JOBLESS AMERICAN WORKERS NEED TO SPEAK OUT. WE NEED TO  INSTALL E-VERIFY IN EVERY COMPANY THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES. IT WILL GUARANTEE THE REMOVAL OF EVERY UNAUTHORIZED WORKER, ACCEPT A LIMITED NUMBER OF PERSONS USING FAMILY SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS AND OTHER DOCUMENTATION. SOME WILL GET A POSITIVE VERIFICATION, BUT NEW UPGRADES AND INNOVATIONS TO THE SYSTEM, WILL CATCH ILLEGAL FOREIGN LABOR IN THE FUTURE.</p>
<p>Whereas the administration keeps imposing millions of poor, uneducated people into America, because of poor national enforcement of which the majority of foreign nationals become public charges.   Just before Obama signs new Immigration reform, taxpayers better realize that there are expectations from millions of more destitute people just waiting to slip across our undermanned borders and past airport control  If there was a time to call and harass your Senator or Representative at 202-224-3121, this really is the most urgent of times. Just your vote and voice can&#8211;HALT&#8211;this innocuous law becoming active. We cannot keep on accepting the world indigent, as it will lead to OVERPOPULATION as stated by the US Census Bureau.  Just read the demographics and expenditures that will tax you even more. No more lies and read the facts and inferior enforcement grading at NUMBERSUSA. Understand the undisclosed corruption in Washington and different states at JUDICIAL WATCH.</p>
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