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	<title>Comments on: Lenin and Revolutionary Organization</title>
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	<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/</link>
	<description>I&#039;m a force by myself but we&#039;re a movement when we&#039;re together</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 03:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-377</guid>
		<description>This conversation looks to be over on this post, but for what it&#039;s worth.... 

Dana Barnett makes a case for more unified leftist political development (along the lines of of the above mentioned study groups and multi-tendency formations) in her review of Diana Block&#039;s recent memoir &quot;Arm the Spirit: A Woman’s Journey Underground and Back.&quot; See http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/1768/1/ 

I&#039;ve read Block&#039;s book and found this review to be a really good look at the issues it brings up and how they connect to current developments on the radical left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conversation looks to be over on this post, but for what it&#8217;s worth&#8230;. </p>
<p>Dana Barnett makes a case for more unified leftist political development (along the lines of of the above mentioned study groups and multi-tendency formations) in her review of Diana Block&#8217;s recent memoir &#8220;Arm the Spirit: A Woman’s Journey Underground and Back.&#8221; See <a href="http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/1768/1/" rel="nofollow">http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/1768/1/</a> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read Block&#8217;s book and found this review to be a really good look at the issues it brings up and how they connect to current developments on the radical left.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-359</guid>
		<description>Hi Anne,  some of the folks behind Gathering Forces are actually in NYC, so if you wanna hit us up at redmaroons@gmail.com we can talk more.  

Peace,
L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anne,  some of the folks behind Gathering Forces are actually in NYC, so if you wanna hit us up at <a href="mailto:redmaroons@gmail.com">redmaroons@gmail.com</a> we can talk more.  </p>
<p>Peace,<br />
L</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-352</guid>
		<description>Hi Anne,

The study group article I posted above interviews two different NYC groups, Another Politics is Possible and the NY Study Group. APIP seems more on the anti-authoritarian/anarchist side of things, and NYSG seems to be more connected to the socialist party left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anne,</p>
<p>The study group article I posted above interviews two different NYC groups, Another Politics is Possible and the NY Study Group. APIP seems more on the anti-authoritarian/anarchist side of things, and NYSG seems to be more connected to the socialist party left.</p>
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		<title>By: geert</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>geert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-351</guid>
		<description>Hi Anne,

Bring the Ruckus is active in NYC. We would be glad to meet with you.  you can email me at geert@bringtheruckus.org

cheers,
geert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anne,</p>
<p>Bring the Ruckus is active in NYC. We would be glad to meet with you.  you can email me at <a href="mailto:geert@bringtheruckus.org">geert@bringtheruckus.org</a></p>
<p>cheers,<br />
geert</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-348</guid>
		<description>Hi,

Great blog...
Do you know of any anarchist/socialist study groups in the NYC area?

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Great blog&#8230;<br />
Do you know of any anarchist/socialist study groups in the NYC area?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-209</guid>
		<description>It has been helpful for me to frame the anarchist rethinking of organization—something U&amp;S can be included—as part of a recurring historical phenomona.  Off the top of my head I can trace it to the victory of the Bolshevik Party and its association/ leadership (and suffocation) of the Russian Revolution.  As far as I have understood it, a generation of Anarchists decided join the forming communist parties around the world. Victor Serge is the most famous representative of this trend that I am aware of.  From this catastrophe, Anarchists such as Nestor Makhno helped co-write the founding document of the Platformists.  They had to wrestle with a historical period and deal with older assumptions of Anarchist organization in light of contemporary successes and failures.  (I think this is one of the key features which signals an age of ideological juggling and re-composition.  Something so catastrophic or unbelievable happens on a systemic level that the old ideas have difficulty explaining them.)  There were other key moments such as the failure of the Second International, the breaking apart of the social democratic parties and the rise of the Communist Parties to name some of the most powerful….

But to stay on the track of the Anarchist tip…. Anarchism became widely held after the collapse of Soviet Union.  For obvious reasons this was a good development.  There was a period of organizing mass organizations and revolutionary organizations by Anarchists in the 1990s.  Then we had the heady years of the anti-globalization movement where protest hopping and affinity groups were the buzz word.  In the context of this various organizations built by anarchists fell apart.  It seems to me there is a general scratching of the heads going on about the way forward.  What is different about this period is the nightmare of Stalinism and Soviet Russia does not hang over everyone.  I am sure this has effected the conversations and ways of thinking about organization and politics which old timers might be able to give us an insight to.  This might make for a period of a richer synthesis of Anarchism and Marxism then what has been ever done before. 

Thanks for the link on the roundtable Andrew. I will look at their discussion in the upcoming days. Exciting stuff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been helpful for me to frame the anarchist rethinking of organization—something U&#038;S can be included—as part of a recurring historical phenomona.  Off the top of my head I can trace it to the victory of the Bolshevik Party and its association/ leadership (and suffocation) of the Russian Revolution.  As far as I have understood it, a generation of Anarchists decided join the forming communist parties around the world. Victor Serge is the most famous representative of this trend that I am aware of.  From this catastrophe, Anarchists such as Nestor Makhno helped co-write the founding document of the Platformists.  They had to wrestle with a historical period and deal with older assumptions of Anarchist organization in light of contemporary successes and failures.  (I think this is one of the key features which signals an age of ideological juggling and re-composition.  Something so catastrophic or unbelievable happens on a systemic level that the old ideas have difficulty explaining them.)  There were other key moments such as the failure of the Second International, the breaking apart of the social democratic parties and the rise of the Communist Parties to name some of the most powerful….</p>
<p>But to stay on the track of the Anarchist tip…. Anarchism became widely held after the collapse of Soviet Union.  For obvious reasons this was a good development.  There was a period of organizing mass organizations and revolutionary organizations by Anarchists in the 1990s.  Then we had the heady years of the anti-globalization movement where protest hopping and affinity groups were the buzz word.  In the context of this various organizations built by anarchists fell apart.  It seems to me there is a general scratching of the heads going on about the way forward.  What is different about this period is the nightmare of Stalinism and Soviet Russia does not hang over everyone.  I am sure this has effected the conversations and ways of thinking about organization and politics which old timers might be able to give us an insight to.  This might make for a period of a richer synthesis of Anarchism and Marxism then what has been ever done before. </p>
<p>Thanks for the link on the roundtable Andrew. I will look at their discussion in the upcoming days. Exciting stuff!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-207</guid>
		<description>The study group roundtable that I mentioned in my comment above, which was published in Upping the Anti #8, is available on-line here:

http://zapagringo.blogspot.com/2009/09/study-groups-roundtable.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study group roundtable that I mentioned in my comment above, which was published in Upping the Anti #8, is available on-line here:</p>
<p><a href="http://zapagringo.blogspot.com/2009/09/study-groups-roundtable.html" rel="nofollow">http://zapagringo.blogspot.com/2009/09/study-groups-roundtable.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: ibn jubayr</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>ibn jubayr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-204</guid>
		<description>a couple other things on Queen Mother Moore that got lost somewhere between my brian and my keyboard:

she kind of served as a bridge between the Old Left and the New.  when Muhammad Ahmad was hanging around her during the early years of RAM he had some anti-communist sentiments.  but because she was sincere about building the black liberation movement he shed these prejudices and began to explore the Marxist tradition.

that&#039;s the importance of organic revolutionaries like Queen Mother Moore:  as patriotic movement builders they are able to make the past relevant again.

Lenin was good at this as well.  one month he advocated &quot;What is to be done&quot; and later he called for &quot;opening up the party.&quot;  he understood that the growth and structure of the revolutionary organization was organically related to the height, velocity and form of the movement.  Stalinist Bolshevization in the 30s, and a repeat of this by sectors of the movements in the 60s &amp; 70s was a mechanical reading of organizational structure that was part and parcel of its vanguardist implications.

like Queen Mother Moore, Lenin saw one of his tasks as making old ideas new again.  his &quot;State &amp; Revolution&quot; arguably is an application of Marx&#039;s &quot;The Civil War in France&quot; and &quot;Critique of the Gotha Program&quot;.

Queen Mother Moore, Black Power, the Chinese Revolution and the resistance in Vietnam -- for all of their faults -- was a generation renewing the relevance and giving new meaning to the ideas of Marx and Lenin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a couple other things on Queen Mother Moore that got lost somewhere between my brian and my keyboard:</p>
<p>she kind of served as a bridge between the Old Left and the New.  when Muhammad Ahmad was hanging around her during the early years of RAM he had some anti-communist sentiments.  but because she was sincere about building the black liberation movement he shed these prejudices and began to explore the Marxist tradition.</p>
<p>that&#8217;s the importance of organic revolutionaries like Queen Mother Moore:  as patriotic movement builders they are able to make the past relevant again.</p>
<p>Lenin was good at this as well.  one month he advocated &#8220;What is to be done&#8221; and later he called for &#8220;opening up the party.&#8221;  he understood that the growth and structure of the revolutionary organization was organically related to the height, velocity and form of the movement.  Stalinist Bolshevization in the 30s, and a repeat of this by sectors of the movements in the 60s &amp; 70s was a mechanical reading of organizational structure that was part and parcel of its vanguardist implications.</p>
<p>like Queen Mother Moore, Lenin saw one of his tasks as making old ideas new again.  his &#8220;State &amp; Revolution&#8221; arguably is an application of Marx&#8217;s &#8220;The Civil War in France&#8221; and &#8220;Critique of the Gotha Program&#8221;.</p>
<p>Queen Mother Moore, Black Power, the Chinese Revolution and the resistance in Vietnam &#8212; for all of their faults &#8212; was a generation renewing the relevance and giving new meaning to the ideas of Marx and Lenin.</p>
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		<title>By: ibn jubayr</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>ibn jubayr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Afrose said,
&quot;My understanding is that for the Old Left, they would or could not imagine a mass movement with revolutionary potential breaking out where the movements were centered on nationalist race politics, gender liberation, etc. (As Nate pointed out, some Stalinists, as well as folks from other tendencies, may still carry this line.) But what is this going to look like for us?&quot;

i&#039;ve been asking myself that same question for some time now.  to what extant will past movements be seen as caricatures, and to what extant will they still hold sway?

to an extant it&#039;s already happened. i&#039;ve heard of old, Trotskyist remnants trying to argue why Russia was a degenerated workers state and not state capitalism to an 18 year old person of color whom had no bearings on the subject, and frankly didn&#039;t give a shit.

there are a number of issues wrapped up in that scenario.

in the 60s &amp; 70s the question of Russia held sway because of the importance of the Chinese Revolution to so many people of color in the US and around the world. that&#039;s not so much the case today.

the material and ideological connections between Russia - and maybe even China - have not crystalized in any movements here.

this is not to say that - and i think Don H makes this point - there are not important lessons we can learn form Lenin, the Bolsheviks, and the Russian Revolution.

quite the opposite.  as revolutionaries  we must expect to revisit many of these historical questions but in different form.  i want to emphasize both parts of this statement.  we need to be prepared so that we don&#039;t repeat the same mistakes. 

BUT... they will most definitely take a different form.  i think this latter point is related to the rise of new subjectivities in any movement, and the transformation of those subjectivities. 

the lack of historical memory may very well lead to many young folks brushing off any serious engagement with the legacy of the Black Panther Party, for instance.  but figures like Queen Mother Moore teach us that it is important for us, as revolutionaries, to be repositories of history and politics for the new generation of radicals while at the same time giving them the space and freedom to walk their own path and arrive at questions as they come up in the movement.

at other times leaps will be made. in my head i&#039;m think about the leap from Civil Rights to Black Power.  the velocity of the movement will accelerate, contradictions will crystalize, and a restructuring of the movement will take place.  during these times we will have to balance our interventions against a volunteeristic pace.

i&#039;m not sure if all this makes sense, but in my head they point to the tensions surrounding the emergence of new movements and subjectivities on the one hand, and the need to not repeat the same mistakes on the other...

mythoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afrose said,<br />
&#8220;My understanding is that for the Old Left, they would or could not imagine a mass movement with revolutionary potential breaking out where the movements were centered on nationalist race politics, gender liberation, etc. (As Nate pointed out, some Stalinists, as well as folks from other tendencies, may still carry this line.) But what is this going to look like for us?&#8221;</p>
<p>i&#8217;ve been asking myself that same question for some time now.  to what extant will past movements be seen as caricatures, and to what extant will they still hold sway?</p>
<p>to an extant it&#8217;s already happened. i&#8217;ve heard of old, Trotskyist remnants trying to argue why Russia was a degenerated workers state and not state capitalism to an 18 year old person of color whom had no bearings on the subject, and frankly didn&#8217;t give a shit.</p>
<p>there are a number of issues wrapped up in that scenario.</p>
<p>in the 60s &amp; 70s the question of Russia held sway because of the importance of the Chinese Revolution to so many people of color in the US and around the world. that&#8217;s not so much the case today.</p>
<p>the material and ideological connections between Russia &#8211; and maybe even China &#8211; have not crystalized in any movements here.</p>
<p>this is not to say that &#8211; and i think Don H makes this point &#8211; there are not important lessons we can learn form Lenin, the Bolsheviks, and the Russian Revolution.</p>
<p>quite the opposite.  as revolutionaries  we must expect to revisit many of these historical questions but in different form.  i want to emphasize both parts of this statement.  we need to be prepared so that we don&#8217;t repeat the same mistakes. </p>
<p>BUT&#8230; they will most definitely take a different form.  i think this latter point is related to the rise of new subjectivities in any movement, and the transformation of those subjectivities. </p>
<p>the lack of historical memory may very well lead to many young folks brushing off any serious engagement with the legacy of the Black Panther Party, for instance.  but figures like Queen Mother Moore teach us that it is important for us, as revolutionaries, to be repositories of history and politics for the new generation of radicals while at the same time giving them the space and freedom to walk their own path and arrive at questions as they come up in the movement.</p>
<p>at other times leaps will be made. in my head i&#8217;m think about the leap from Civil Rights to Black Power.  the velocity of the movement will accelerate, contradictions will crystalize, and a restructuring of the movement will take place.  during these times we will have to balance our interventions against a volunteeristic pace.</p>
<p>i&#8217;m not sure if all this makes sense, but in my head they point to the tensions surrounding the emergence of new movements and subjectivities on the one hand, and the need to not repeat the same mistakes on the other&#8230;</p>
<p>mythoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Afrose</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Afrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-202</guid>
		<description>I find these questions about ideological recomposition very interesting. I would be interested in hearing more about what is means, might look like, or historical examples of it. I do not know enough about the trajectory of leftist politics to answer Andrew’s question about whether this particular ideological recomposition (anarchists/those with anti-state, democratic politics forming revolutionary cadre organizations) is very new or not. But my sense is that there are other historical examples of this phenomenon. Can we learn from the struggles of the 60s and 70s about how ideological recomposition works? My understanding is that for the Old Left, they would or could not imagine a mass movement with revolutionary potential breaking out where the movements were centered on nationalist race politics, gender liberation, etc. (As Nate pointed out, some Stalinists, as well as folks from other tendencies, may still carry this line.) But what is this going to look like for us? I have the sense that the answer may lie in, as Will said, that narrow reform movements are not possible during this time. I took this to mean that yes we will engage in reform struggles for all the reasons laid out above, but that these struggles themselves will have to be broader in terms of reaching more deeply into the oppressed classes, seeing the interconnected nature of struggles, and making demands that address these two points in order to be successful in this particular moment of crisis. This is perhaps not a super concrete way to look at the issue, but I’d be interested in hearing the ways in which other folks have understood it. 

In response to Nate’s questions about perspectives on reform struggles, I would say that both points he laid out are dead on, and that there may be more to it as well. Every reform that is won means a tangible gain for oppressed people that has a true impact on our lives. And the experience of fighting, losing and winning, and building organizations is one that gives us the confidence to build broader movements with demands and politics going beyond reform. But these struggles are also important in developing the understandings that revolutionary organizations have of the particular moment, what is needed, what is possible, and what we should be demanding, and not just a way for us to increase our numbers. 

This I think is related to Will’s question about the difference between tailing mass movements, being a vanguard, and having an organic relation to them. During movements, and we can see this example in the Bolshevik Party as well, sometimes the mass of people move far more quickly and beyond the revolutionary organization. Lessons are learned faster during these times, and for those who have spent the periods of low activity building organizations and political perspectives may lack the flexibility to move immediately, or to change positions radically. On the eve of the February Revolution in Russia, members of the Bolshevik party advised a group of women planning an International Womens Day march and rally to not go on strike, but they did it anyway and it kicked off a general strike. Members of the party were annoyed that their advice was not taken, and they didn’t put out flyers for a general strike until 200,000 workers had already struck. On the other hand, the committees of the Bolsheviks that were rooted in communities with more working people were much quicker to move with the mass activity, rather than tail it. The latter example I think is representative of what an organic relationship between revolutionary and mass organizations looks like. 

I’d like to take a stab at Will’s question about confusing mass organizations with revolutionary organizations. In terms of the specific differences, I think revolutionary organizations are necessarily more politically cohesive, meaning there is a higher amount of political agreement than in mass organizations. As was mentioned by Mamos I believe, it is likely that the organizations that will lead the fight for oppressed people in a movement will not be a single revolutionary organization, but a large multi-tendency mass organization that agrees on a set of political points particular to the movement and within which revolutionaries can argue for militant orientations to struggles, not conceding to liberal cooptation, etc.  I think the confusion might occur when the relationship between people in the rev org and people not in it is not clear. Hopefully the center model provides a way forward in laying out the relationship in a democratic framework, with clarity about the role of the rev org in the mass org, the independent validity of the work being carried out by the mass org, and a level of political agreement that is high enough to wage a militant struggle but not so high that only revolutionaries of a particular ilk can participate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find these questions about ideological recomposition very interesting. I would be interested in hearing more about what is means, might look like, or historical examples of it. I do not know enough about the trajectory of leftist politics to answer Andrew’s question about whether this particular ideological recomposition (anarchists/those with anti-state, democratic politics forming revolutionary cadre organizations) is very new or not. But my sense is that there are other historical examples of this phenomenon. Can we learn from the struggles of the 60s and 70s about how ideological recomposition works? My understanding is that for the Old Left, they would or could not imagine a mass movement with revolutionary potential breaking out where the movements were centered on nationalist race politics, gender liberation, etc. (As Nate pointed out, some Stalinists, as well as folks from other tendencies, may still carry this line.) But what is this going to look like for us? I have the sense that the answer may lie in, as Will said, that narrow reform movements are not possible during this time. I took this to mean that yes we will engage in reform struggles for all the reasons laid out above, but that these struggles themselves will have to be broader in terms of reaching more deeply into the oppressed classes, seeing the interconnected nature of struggles, and making demands that address these two points in order to be successful in this particular moment of crisis. This is perhaps not a super concrete way to look at the issue, but I’d be interested in hearing the ways in which other folks have understood it. </p>
<p>In response to Nate’s questions about perspectives on reform struggles, I would say that both points he laid out are dead on, and that there may be more to it as well. Every reform that is won means a tangible gain for oppressed people that has a true impact on our lives. And the experience of fighting, losing and winning, and building organizations is one that gives us the confidence to build broader movements with demands and politics going beyond reform. But these struggles are also important in developing the understandings that revolutionary organizations have of the particular moment, what is needed, what is possible, and what we should be demanding, and not just a way for us to increase our numbers. </p>
<p>This I think is related to Will’s question about the difference between tailing mass movements, being a vanguard, and having an organic relation to them. During movements, and we can see this example in the Bolshevik Party as well, sometimes the mass of people move far more quickly and beyond the revolutionary organization. Lessons are learned faster during these times, and for those who have spent the periods of low activity building organizations and political perspectives may lack the flexibility to move immediately, or to change positions radically. On the eve of the February Revolution in Russia, members of the Bolshevik party advised a group of women planning an International Womens Day march and rally to not go on strike, but they did it anyway and it kicked off a general strike. Members of the party were annoyed that their advice was not taken, and they didn’t put out flyers for a general strike until 200,000 workers had already struck. On the other hand, the committees of the Bolsheviks that were rooted in communities with more working people were much quicker to move with the mass activity, rather than tail it. The latter example I think is representative of what an organic relationship between revolutionary and mass organizations looks like. </p>
<p>I’d like to take a stab at Will’s question about confusing mass organizations with revolutionary organizations. In terms of the specific differences, I think revolutionary organizations are necessarily more politically cohesive, meaning there is a higher amount of political agreement than in mass organizations. As was mentioned by Mamos I believe, it is likely that the organizations that will lead the fight for oppressed people in a movement will not be a single revolutionary organization, but a large multi-tendency mass organization that agrees on a set of political points particular to the movement and within which revolutionaries can argue for militant orientations to struggles, not conceding to liberal cooptation, etc.  I think the confusion might occur when the relationship between people in the rev org and people not in it is not clear. Hopefully the center model provides a way forward in laying out the relationship in a democratic framework, with clarity about the role of the rev org in the mass org, the independent validity of the work being carried out by the mass org, and a level of political agreement that is high enough to wage a militant struggle but not so high that only revolutionaries of a particular ilk can participate.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-193</guid>
		<description>I found Andrew&#039;s comment helpful. Implied in this, I think, is that there are small cadre-ish (aspiring to cadre?) organizations slowly forming, and maybe a cadrification (or attempt at) of some other groups. That implies an additional issue, which is how these various small semi-cadre groups can relate to each other constructively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Andrew&#8217;s comment helpful. Implied in this, I think, is that there are small cadre-ish (aspiring to cadre?) organizations slowly forming, and maybe a cadrification (or attempt at) of some other groups. That implies an additional issue, which is how these various small semi-cadre groups can relate to each other constructively.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-190</guid>
		<description>Mamos wrote: &quot;In others words is it possible to build a cadre organization with anti-state / anarchist politics, with a highly democratic internal group structure and culture, etc. which can prioritize the kind of intensive theoretical and organizing training that Will calls for and admires in the best of the Marxist tradition?&quot;

From what I can tell, if the answer isn&#039;t &quot;yes&quot; quite yet, it certainly is &quot;folks are thinking about it/giving it a shot.&quot;

The numerous examples I can think of:

1. The wave of coastal revolutionary study groups (see the round-table on radical discussion groups published in the latest Upping the Anti): Activist Study Circle in the Bay Area, LA Crew, New York Study Group, Another Politics is Possible study group (NYC)

2. Bring the Ruckus (whose stated goal is combining anarchist organization with cadre models)

3. Miami Autonomy &amp; Solidarity (a very young revolutionary organization that just put out a political statement; google it for reference)

4. Class struggle anarchist organizations are all engaging with Marxism in a lot of ways while playing with forms of organization that one might call &quot;cadre&quot; if &quot;cadre&quot; didn&#039;t have the Leninist origins. Even older, more established organizations like Northeastern Federation of Anarcho-Communists are engaging with what there is to learn in Marxism a lot, internally.

This need for something new, some new form of revolutionary practice and organization that isn&#039;t wedded unnecessarily to this tradition/tendency or that, seems to be a nation-wide phenemenon. It could just be that I&#039;m young and don&#039;t pay attention enough, but it seems like a very new development to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mamos wrote: &#8220;In others words is it possible to build a cadre organization with anti-state / anarchist politics, with a highly democratic internal group structure and culture, etc. which can prioritize the kind of intensive theoretical and organizing training that Will calls for and admires in the best of the Marxist tradition?&#8221;</p>
<p>From what I can tell, if the answer isn&#8217;t &#8220;yes&#8221; quite yet, it certainly is &#8220;folks are thinking about it/giving it a shot.&#8221;</p>
<p>The numerous examples I can think of:</p>
<p>1. The wave of coastal revolutionary study groups (see the round-table on radical discussion groups published in the latest Upping the Anti): Activist Study Circle in the Bay Area, LA Crew, New York Study Group, Another Politics is Possible study group (NYC)</p>
<p>2. Bring the Ruckus (whose stated goal is combining anarchist organization with cadre models)</p>
<p>3. Miami Autonomy &amp; Solidarity (a very young revolutionary organization that just put out a political statement; google it for reference)</p>
<p>4. Class struggle anarchist organizations are all engaging with Marxism in a lot of ways while playing with forms of organization that one might call &#8220;cadre&#8221; if &#8220;cadre&#8221; didn&#8217;t have the Leninist origins. Even older, more established organizations like Northeastern Federation of Anarcho-Communists are engaging with what there is to learn in Marxism a lot, internally.</p>
<p>This need for something new, some new form of revolutionary practice and organization that isn&#8217;t wedded unnecessarily to this tradition/tendency or that, seems to be a nation-wide phenemenon. It could just be that I&#8217;m young and don&#8217;t pay attention enough, but it seems like a very new development to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Couple more things...

Nate&#039;s fine detective work has gotten me thinking if I am out to save the soul of JFTism. I will have to think about this.

And what about saving the souls of Malcolm, Fanon, Elma Francois, Walter Rodney, and the BPP among others?

Or are we at a historical moment that needs a new &quot;ism&quot; which sublates (think Hegel) the past contributions into something new? If that is the case, what is the significance of that? What does that say about the current period we are in? The past we have left behind?

Hope this makes sense...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple more things&#8230;</p>
<p>Nate&#8217;s fine detective work has gotten me thinking if I am out to save the soul of JFTism. I will have to think about this.</p>
<p>And what about saving the souls of Malcolm, Fanon, Elma Francois, Walter Rodney, and the BPP among others?</p>
<p>Or are we at a historical moment that needs a new &#8220;ism&#8221; which sublates (think Hegel) the past contributions into something new? If that is the case, what is the significance of that? What does that say about the current period we are in? The past we have left behind?</p>
<p>Hope this makes sense&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/23/lenin-and-revolutionary-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=726#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Yo Nate

You would make Inspector Gadget proud of your detective skillz. 

I do draw upon the Anarchist and Platformist tradition, but it is part of a broader ideological, organizational, and political constellation of other traditions. 

One of the things I observed about the Anarchists I ran into is that they only considered radical history where folks threw up the Red and Black or something of that sort.  Meaning there was a narrow sense of what constituted important and radical history.  More importantly, this implied what social struggles should look like.  The Anarchists I was around failed to read the self-activity of social struggles.  (This is vital because this touches on how some Anarchists see culture, politics, language etc—everything imaginable. Mamos explained this more regarding JFT’s Invading Socialist Society pamphlet.)  While I studied the Spanish Revolution, dabbled a little in Italian Anarchism, Kropotkin etc, over the years I have spent more time studying the history of the Iraqi CP, the Iranian revolution and some of its less recognized thinkers among the contemporary left, struggles in the Caribbean, East Africa, among other places where the Red and Black flag rarely appeared. What to make of these histories? Are they part of world history, radical history?  Have these people made contributions to the struggle? Are they worth studying? Are they important to people of color, women, and the American working class? My answers to all these questions are yes. (I am guessing yours are as well).  Many of the Anarchists I ran into might say no or just ignore these histories.

I guess what I am getting at is that I moved away from the need to save the soul of Anarchism and/or Platformism.  Instead, I think something new needs to come about.  To the extent that I over-emphasize JFT in my post, it is a sign to the immense contributions I think that tradition has made.  Dimensions of these contributions are powerful enough  that they reshape how other  “isms” are thought about.  I do not know if I can say that about Platformism and maybe even Anarchism. (At the same time, JFT is not enough and needs to be overcome for its limitations. I guess I need to come up with a new “ism”. ☺ ) 

So I think your hunch is probably correct.  While I think much can be learned from the Platformist tradition, my hunch (and certainly my practice) is that thinking through the paradigm of Platformism has to be overcome/ broken.  I cannot say that I was ever a Platformist so cannot touch upon what it would mean for someone who shares affinities with Platformism to do such a thing.  The only types of Anarchism I ever identified with were Revolutionary Anarchism and Anarcho-syndicalism.

What histories of the Platformist tradition would you recommend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo Nate</p>
<p>You would make Inspector Gadget proud of your detective skillz. </p>
<p>I do draw upon the Anarchist and Platformist tradition, but it is part of a broader ideological, organizational, and political constellation of other traditions. </p>
<p>One of the things I observed about the Anarchists I ran into is that they only considered radical history where folks threw up the Red and Black or something of that sort.  Meaning there was a narrow sense of what constituted important and radical history.  More importantly, this implied what social struggles should look like.  The Anarchists I was around failed to read the self-activity of social struggles.  (This is vital because this touches on how some Anarchists see culture, politics, language etc—everything imaginable. Mamos explained this more regarding JFT’s Invading Socialist Society pamphlet.)  While I studied the Spanish Revolution, dabbled a little in Italian Anarchism, Kropotkin etc, over the years I have spent more time studying the history of the Iraqi CP, the Iranian revolution and some of its less recognized thinkers among the contemporary left, struggles in the Caribbean, East Africa, among other places where the Red and Black flag rarely appeared. What to make of these histories? Are they part of world history, radical history?  Have these people made contributions to the struggle? Are they worth studying? Are they important to people of color, women, and the American working class? My answers to all these questions are yes. (I am guessing yours are as well).  Many of the Anarchists I ran into might say no or just ignore these histories.</p>
<p>I guess what I am getting at is that I moved away from the need to save the soul of Anarchism and/or Platformism.  Instead, I think something new needs to come about.  To the extent that I over-emphasize JFT in my post, it is a sign to the immense contributions I think that tradition has made.  Dimensions of these contributions are powerful enough  that they reshape how other  “isms” are thought about.  I do not know if I can say that about Platformism and maybe even Anarchism. (At the same time, JFT is not enough and needs to be overcome for its limitations. I guess I need to come up with a new “ism”. ☺ ) </p>
<p>So I think your hunch is probably correct.  While I think much can be learned from the Platformist tradition, my hunch (and certainly my practice) is that thinking through the paradigm of Platformism has to be overcome/ broken.  I cannot say that I was ever a Platformist so cannot touch upon what it would mean for someone who shares affinities with Platformism to do such a thing.  The only types of Anarchism I ever identified with were Revolutionary Anarchism and Anarcho-syndicalism.</p>
<p>What histories of the Platformist tradition would you recommend?</p>
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