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	<title>Comments on: The Ecology Movement, Climate Change &amp; US Empire</title>
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	<description>I&#039;m a force by myself but we&#039;re a movement when we&#039;re together</description>
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		<title>By: ibn jubayr</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/15/some-thoughts-on-the-ecology-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>ibn jubayr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>yeah,  the cap-and-trade system, which is supposed to limit carbon emissions, or force companies that do emit above a certain amount to buy permits, that is being debated internationally gives the US state the ability to not only place limitations on growth possibilities of non-US firms, but also allows them to, ideally, set the terms of those limitations.  this might give US firms time to catch up.  what is key is that the domestic climate bill gives 85% of the carbon permits away for free, making companies pay for only 15% .  it remains to be seen as to whether these will be distributed according to a protectionist policy giving US firms either all or most of these.  also, agriculture, last i heard has been exempt all together from carbon emission regulation, which gives US agro-capitalist firms a secure and competitive position in the domestic agricultural sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah,  the cap-and-trade system, which is supposed to limit carbon emissions, or force companies that do emit above a certain amount to buy permits, that is being debated internationally gives the US state the ability to not only place limitations on growth possibilities of non-US firms, but also allows them to, ideally, set the terms of those limitations.  this might give US firms time to catch up.  what is key is that the domestic climate bill gives 85% of the carbon permits away for free, making companies pay for only 15% .  it remains to be seen as to whether these will be distributed according to a protectionist policy giving US firms either all or most of these.  also, agriculture, last i heard has been exempt all together from carbon emission regulation, which gives US agro-capitalist firms a secure and competitive position in the domestic agricultural sector.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://gatheringforces.org/2009/10/15/some-thoughts-on-the-ecology-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gatheringforces.org/?p=624#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.  This highlights the political character of climate change in important ways.  

Your point is key about how U.S. attempts to manage climate bills at home is reflective of its maneuvering to deal with its declining power in the international arena, as talks like Copenhagen will and have put on display.  As you put it, “No one is willing to foot the bill, and no one is obliging to the threats, promises or leadership of US Empire.”  

Part of this decline is rooted in the dynamism of capitalist competition and the inability of U.S. capitalists in the last couple decades or so to exploit the growing emphasis on “green” capitalism to maintain their own dominance in the global market.  I know the anti-capitalist left doesn’t often like to attribute any even remotely positive sounding attributes to capitalism, but it seems important to recognize that the ingenuity of some capitalists to deal with climate change on capitalist terms is changing the playing field of US imperialism and capital, as well as shaping many of the ways in which progressive environmentalist groups conceptualize organizing against environmental devastation.  

There’s a PBS Frontline special called “Heat” that shows this well in the context of the decline of U.S. auto.  One thing it exposes, I think unintentionally, is how U.S. auto capitalists &amp; the government have failed to have a long-term vision with regards to &quot;green&quot; economic growth.  There&#039;s a chapter that discusses how the Big 3 automakers missed the boat on the hybrid and electric car, which they didn&#039;t want to make because making the big trucks &amp; SUVs was more profitable at the time (late 90s or so).  

In the last couple years, after gas prices have spiked, while the idea of green capitalism has been gaining in popularity because of a growing recognition that real ecological crisis is already upon us, and since the economic crisis has hit, people don&#039;t want to buy those big ass cars (as much) anymore and U.S. auto clearly made the wrong decision.  They have lost huge portions of the market to makers like Toyota who decided to make a hybrid because they actually feared being left behind by the U.S. makers on this front.  Now U.S. automakers are 10 years behind Japanese capitalists on this technology &amp; market.  There&#039;s no getting around that the Japanese capitalists have simply been much more innovative than U.S. capitalists with the green capitalism stuff (and in general) and we&#039;re seeing the consequences of that now with the defeat of U.S. auto. 

I’m curious to hear more about the ways in which you think that “a people-to-people democratic eco-solidarity campaigns here in the U.S.&quot; could be built.  Are there examples you know of where this has been built?  The population control talk could be a key target of such, especially given its racist character as you point out but also its patriarchal character since any population control measures always invariably mean repression of women’s reproductive freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.  This highlights the political character of climate change in important ways.  </p>
<p>Your point is key about how U.S. attempts to manage climate bills at home is reflective of its maneuvering to deal with its declining power in the international arena, as talks like Copenhagen will and have put on display.  As you put it, “No one is willing to foot the bill, and no one is obliging to the threats, promises or leadership of US Empire.”  </p>
<p>Part of this decline is rooted in the dynamism of capitalist competition and the inability of U.S. capitalists in the last couple decades or so to exploit the growing emphasis on “green” capitalism to maintain their own dominance in the global market.  I know the anti-capitalist left doesn’t often like to attribute any even remotely positive sounding attributes to capitalism, but it seems important to recognize that the ingenuity of some capitalists to deal with climate change on capitalist terms is changing the playing field of US imperialism and capital, as well as shaping many of the ways in which progressive environmentalist groups conceptualize organizing against environmental devastation.  </p>
<p>There’s a PBS Frontline special called “Heat” that shows this well in the context of the decline of U.S. auto.  One thing it exposes, I think unintentionally, is how U.S. auto capitalists &amp; the government have failed to have a long-term vision with regards to &#8220;green&#8221; economic growth.  There&#8217;s a chapter that discusses how the Big 3 automakers missed the boat on the hybrid and electric car, which they didn&#8217;t want to make because making the big trucks &amp; SUVs was more profitable at the time (late 90s or so).  </p>
<p>In the last couple years, after gas prices have spiked, while the idea of green capitalism has been gaining in popularity because of a growing recognition that real ecological crisis is already upon us, and since the economic crisis has hit, people don&#8217;t want to buy those big ass cars (as much) anymore and U.S. auto clearly made the wrong decision.  They have lost huge portions of the market to makers like Toyota who decided to make a hybrid because they actually feared being left behind by the U.S. makers on this front.  Now U.S. automakers are 10 years behind Japanese capitalists on this technology &amp; market.  There&#8217;s no getting around that the Japanese capitalists have simply been much more innovative than U.S. capitalists with the green capitalism stuff (and in general) and we&#8217;re seeing the consequences of that now with the defeat of U.S. auto. </p>
<p>I’m curious to hear more about the ways in which you think that “a people-to-people democratic eco-solidarity campaigns here in the U.S.&#8221; could be built.  Are there examples you know of where this has been built?  The population control talk could be a key target of such, especially given its racist character as you point out but also its patriarchal character since any population control measures always invariably mean repression of women’s reproductive freedom.</p>
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